FICTION

[laceblade]

SOOOO, ever since I could read chapter books on my own (age 5), I have wanted to be a writer.

People were like, "OMF I want to be a doctor/astronaut/person with adventure!" and I would be all, "That's so stupid; I want to write books!"

In middle school and high school I wrote emo poetry and towards the end of high school, I realized that I should find a job to support myself first, and THEN figure out how to plug writing into the equation.

And then I went to college, and begrudgingly admitted that my writing sucked, so I thought that I would stop writing and instead focus on reading everything I could get my hands on, and get some life experience.

I've tried my hand at NanoWrimo a few times, mostly to deal with epic characters who live in my head and drip angst all over the place. Ghost Hunters is unfinished but could be revisited. A few weeks ago I was flipping through it ad admitted to myself that some parts were okay (most of it was not, but whatever).


Now I have a stable job, I've read lots of things, and I've grown up a lot (and yes, I realize that everyone more than 5 years older than me is laughing at me in my ripe old age of.....23).

So maybe I should write things, or think about writing things.

My plan is to start with fanfiction. Is this a good plan, Y/N? What fandoms would you read?
If I solely wrote Final Fantasy VII fanfiction, would you still read it??



[This post inspired almost entirely by me reading thuviaptarth's Wesley fanfiction and being all, OMF WHAT IF I WROTE ANGSTY WESLEY FANFICTION?!]


Of course, now that I got all excited and made a post about it, I will go write fanfiction and then feel embarrassed and never post it. WRITING, WTF.

Comments

[seaya.livejournal.com]

Oh that's Jossverse Wesley not Wesley Crusher. You had me looking for a hot minute!

[mystickeeper.livejournal.com]

Wesley could have hot minutes!

[wrdnrd]

I think you should write whatever you feel like writing.

[wrdnrd]

I kind of want to clarify my own comment because not only was i too flip to be clear in what i was saying, there are also many other comments now saying the exact opposite of what i intended to say and i wanted to provide appropriate counterpoint.

I think the 2 most important things for anyone who wants to develop as a writer are:
1) write whenever, whatever you can
2) pay attention to your own writing and its constructions

First, i really think that the key to being a writer is to always be someone who writes. As a writer, i prefer academic essays (i've presented at conferences), non-fiction personal essays (you have my zine and can judge that for yourself), and poetry (i've published, tho' not much). I've also written pretty successful journalism and have written short fiction pieces that others have enjoyed and called successful, but neither journalism nor fiction are my preferred genres. One thing that these all have in common for me is that the more i write, the more i keep writing. Writing, in my experience, is a self-feeding process: writing poetry regularly keeps my brain regularly awake to poetic possibilities, writing for my zines keeps me in the habit of thinking up new ideas to write about. When i stop writing for awhile, my brain starts to stagnate and it becomes harder and harder to pick up the thread again.

The other thing all of the writing forms i mentioned have in common is that they're regular practice in using the English language in its written form -- my 2nd point above about paying attention to the construction of your writing. You exhibit regularly that you write well -- i read your LiveJournal! You linked to one of your press releases once. Your writing is good! (I wouldn't have solicited you for the class zine otherwise. ;) But constantly writing -- anything, in my opinion -- will continuously strengthen your grasp of the basics and KEEP your writing good. John Scalzi once called his blog "the writer's equivalent of doing scales [...]." That's how i feel about writing outside of what may be our chosen genres. Occasionally i still try to dabble in fiction or journalism because it gives me a different perspective on my writing overall -- it flexes different writing muscles and, i think, overall strengthens all of my writing.

If you try your hand at fanfiction and enjoy it, i don't think writing fanfic will hurt -- you'll still be developing your use of written English. I would as soon tell you to stop writing fanfic as to stop writing in your LiveJournal! I cannot see a reason that either will impede your progress as a writer. Why not try writing a little fanfic to see how you feel about writing in a fictional world -- what the conventions are like as far as plot, pacing, description. Then try writing a little original fiction and see how you feel about that -- what you've learned from fanfic, areas where you need to learn more.

And if you ever want to become a professional writer of any sort. Well, the 1st thing that's required is to be a good writer. The "professional" part on top of that is just learning how to navigate writing as a business: identifying markets, sending queries, working with an agent or editor. That's business, and is not exactly the same skillset one needs to be a writer.

A writer is one who writes. So get writing!!

[tigrin.livejournal.com]

I don't think there's anything wrong with writing fanfiction... some people might say it's a waste of time, because if you write something very good, you couldn't really publish it. but I've always enjoyed reading and writing fanfiction and I think it has the possibility to be just as creative as original fiction. It might also be good to practice writing with, since you can use already established characters, and get feedback from a fandom that is also already established.

If you chose to share your writing I would probably read it. :)

[mystickeeper.livejournal.com]

I think the same things about fanfiction (even though I don't spend very much time reading it, :O ) - it is creative - in some ways it's nice to have established characters, although in some ways that makes it harder, too, because if you get the established characters "wrong," people freak out on you.

Thank you! Now I just have to....actually write something, :)

[antarcticlust.livejournal.com]

I'm going to jump out on a limb here and say that you should absolutely NOT write fanfic if your goal is to be a writer. I feel that writing fanfic serves a very different purpose for most writers, and as you said, you don't read it that much. You can't sell it, and you're much less likely to be given feedback on form/style/etc., because people are generally more concerned with content. Even people who love fanfic are often lamenting the poor writing and grammar of many pieces. Not to mention that many authors actually don't like it - they see it as a violation of copyright.

If you're ready to write, then write. It could get really easy to be sucked into writing in other peoples' worlds, with other peoples' characters, which is something of a lazy thing to do as a writer. If you actually WANT to write fanfic for its own sake, then do it - but I don't think that it's a good gateway to writing fiction.

[sasha-feather.livejournal.com]

I have several disagreements with you on this comment.

You can't sell it, and you're much less likely to be given feedback on form/style/etc.

a) Selling fiction is overrated. Most people who do actually sell their fiction make enough money to buy lattes. Very few writers actually make it to the "big time" and they spend years and years getting there while holding down day jobs.

b) Fanfic has a lively and thriving system of feedback providers. They are called beta readers.

Not to mention that many authors actually don't like it - they see it as a violation of copyright.

I'm not sure what that comment has to do with anything. Fanfic is a transformative work; there are legal disputes ongoing; but the fact that SOME authors disapprove (while many others do not) shouldn't keep an aspriring writer from trying their hand at fanfic if they are interested.

Pro authors who also write fanfic include Naomi Novik and Neil Gaiman. Books such as Wicked could even be called fanfic, not to mention those endless Star Trek and other movie spin-off novels, which tons of people buy.

I find anti-fanfic sentiments from people outside the community often fall into... I don't know, sort of, uninformed and similar patterns. Lots of people use fanfic to improve their writing, get feedback and support from a positive and incredibly supportive community made up almost entirely of women. It is for women and by women. Just because it's not mainstream or professional or endorsed by men, well, I think it's easy for people to look down upon.

That's my two cents.

[mystickeeper.livejournal.com]

Okay, I know that there has been a lot of back-and-forth after this, your initial comment, but I'd like to reply to it (and maybe each subsequent comment as well!) in turn.


I find your take on fanfiction really interesting. It seems like you separate fanfiction and fiction into two separate categories (and, obviously they are separate - one is semi-formed when you start playing with it, and the other one is shapeless and must be formed entirely by you, the writer). I feel like there's a lot of overlap, though. In fiction, you take reality as canon, and then mess it up. In fanfiction, there is a different kind of canon - one created by an author/team of writers/whatever - but you are still given a set of rules that you have to play with and explain to your readers.

There are a number of authors who dislike fanfiction and see it as a violation of copyright, but there are an equal amount of authors (probably actually more) who like fanfiction, encourage it, and view it as legal. I'm a supporter of the Organization for Transformative Works - I know some authors/editors/whatever might look down on someone for writing fanfiction, but frankly, I think that they're stupid.
Also, I would probably not use my full name when writing fanfiction. But I wouldn't mind if the two names were linked.

It's true that many readers of fanfiction focus on content, but I think there is a lot more feedback given on form/style/etc. than you might think. I know that I say a lot in my LJ that I don't read very much fanfiction - and that is true, I don't - but I have been haphazardly reading stuff for the last decade. Sometimes I go on kicks, etc. A lot of people care very deeply about style, and criticize it to the complete ignorance of content/plot, just like people do with novels.

I would disagree that it's lazy for a writer to work with other people's worlds/characters. While the creation of those things is now something that the writer can "skip over," you still have to pay attention to them, and being able to look at your reader and say, "Yes, I've read that thing too, and I know it as well as you do, and here's why my idea makes sense when paired with canon," is pretty damn hard, to be honest. It's hard to explain what happens after canon, and it's usually more difficult to explain what happened before canon - what made the characters the way they are.

There's also subsequent commentary on what I meant in my post, so I guess I'll make that clear here, by replying to your first comment. I want to be a writer, but this doesn't necessarily mean, "I want to support myself and a house/etc. solely with fiction sales." I don't find this to be a realistic goal for myself (although that would be cool if it happened!). When I say, "I want to be a writer," I mean, "I want to write things that people look forward to reading, and enjoy." If I make money off of it, that's cool. I'm more interested in fame than in money, :D

My $.02. I expect change back.

[jackshoegazer.livejournal.com]

While I have no problems with fanfiction, I do not think it is a helpful tool for writing.

When writing fanfiction, you are dealing with another person's characters and universe. Because of this, there is much in the way of character development and world building that you don't have to do. These are very critical skills to have being a writer. If your writing exercises leave out the practice of these skills, you will not develop them and they are essential.

Re: My $.02. I expect change back.

[tigrin.livejournal.com]

I don't think this is true at all. Have you ever written a prequel fanfiction? Attempting to unravel an existing character's personality and figure out how they tick can, I think, be just as challenging as creating a new character altogether. I think it is an excellent challenge to attempt to write a character and keep them consistent and true to the original character, and would be very helpful for doing the same with a character you created. There is also a lot of possibility for world building in fanfiction if you approach it right. It is possible to use some elements of a universe and branch off into something that fits within it, but is also uniquely your own. This is all just my personal experience and it is difficult to hear others say such things when I know how hard I struggle to write fanfiction that is creative and original.

Re: My $.02. I expect change back.

[mystickeeper.livejournal.com]

I find this a fascinating perspective - how is writing not a useful tool for writing?

I explain this up above, but I'm okay with reiterating: dealing with another person's characters and universe doesn't necessarily make your job as a writer easier. In fact, I would argue that it's more difficult. If your story takes place after canon, then it must reaffirm that EVERYTHING in canon happened, and shaped the character in your story.
If your story takes place before canon, then you have to make everything in your story help shape who the character will be in canon.
In either case, you can't fuck it up! People who read fanfiction are obviously heavily invested in, or at least knowledgeable of, the canon.

I will point out that in my post, I mentioned "start[ing] with fanfiction" - by this, I implied that fanfiction wouldn't be my sole prep-work before publishing a novel the next week or anything.

[sasha-feather.livejournal.com]

YOU SHOULD WRITE FANFIC!

[sasha-feather.livejournal.com]

Also, as to feeling embarrassed-- I tend to think, there is no shame in fanfic. That is my statement and I'm sticking to it. However I respect that not everyone feels this way. So, some people have a second journal for posting fiction. Also you could consider posting in on Dreamwidth?

Anyways! I think you should write what excites you and interests you. I would read it even if it's not my fandom.

[wrdnrd]

This comment thread is EPIC!! I love it!!!

(Andy commented because i read your comment about anime club presidents aloud to him and he could not allow that to go unremarked. BWAHAHA!

Okay, i have had sake tonight and now i should step away from the internet. Good night, internet!)

[mystickeeper.livejournal.com]

LOL, it is so epic!

[sasha-feather.livejournal.com]

Yeah I woke up at 3 am and I am thinking about this post! So sue me, I think about fan fic all the time!

Actually, I'm trying to figure out why it upset me, other than the fact that I am overly tired and stressed out from moving.

It seems to me that you posted with the idea of writing fanfic in your mind. And since you have a lot of ficcers on your f-list, you maybe had the reasonable expectation of a lot of humorous, positive comments encouraging you to write and post Final Fantasy or Wesely fan fiction. Yes, you said, "is that a good plan, Y/N?", but that seems kind of light and joking in tone to me, not to be taken entirely seriously given your blogging style and the fact that I know you.

In that light, the comments discouraging you from writing fic seemed very harsh and not in the spirit of meeting your emotional needs of wanting to be supported in this endeavor.

It's also possible I'm reading too much of my own self into this-- *I* want to be supported and respected around fanfic, after all-- I have an agenda.

Does that seem like a fair assessment?

[antarcticlust.livejournal.com]

I'm really sorry you thought my comment was harsh and emotionally unsupportive, sasha_feather. I guess I assumed you knew me better than that. I certainly had no intention of not supporting you our your creative endeavors, or anyone else's. Because I'm not a fanfic writer, I didn't take the same message home as you did, and thought she was genuinely asking for advice. And I definitely had no energy to go on the defensive, especially when I felt like I was being asked to defend Anti-Fanfiction People, when I'm not even one of them.

[mystickeeper.livejournal.com]

You're right, that my "Y/N?" question was pretty heavily/heinously fishing for the "Y" response, as in, "Hey, tell me what fandoms would be cool," but tone is really hard to read in LJ posts, and I usually use caps lock to indicate when I'm acting in a ridiculous manner.

I do like encouragement, but I'm also okay with honest feedback. My emotional needs are not met if people lie to me because I'm fishing for sympathy in an obvious manner!

When I first read antarcticlust's and jackshoegazer's comments, I'll admit that I was kind of taken back, but when I read them in the context of the entire discussion that has now taken place, I get what's going on, and I know they're both supportive of me writing anything at all.

[raanve]

I'm late to the party, I apologize!

First things first -- if you wrote FFVII fic, I would read it. But then, I'd read whatever you wrote, most likely, so long as I was somewhat familiar with the fandom.

Secondly, although this comment thread has sort of trended toward whether or not fanfic is somehow "useful", I'm going to go back and reiterate what some others have said (and what I said elsewhere upthread): writing is writing. I have had a real struggle with myself about text-based RP -- I used to feel that this somehow "took away" from my "real" writing. Like I was expending energy and creativity in a useless endeavor; I can't publish my RP logs (well, I could, and maybe someone would want to read them, but not professionally). They aren't a novel.

But the practice of text-based RP is useful in the Scalzian "running scales" sense. And I've come to the (fairly late) realization that play is useful. Having a sense of play about writing makes the rest of the writing easier. You can talk about flexing different writing muscles (non-fiction/fiction/poetry), but if you don't have an operational sense of creativity (and maybe even wonder, or discovery), then I'm inclined to think that you're not going to produce work that's much worth reading. Fanfiction may count as "play", but play is valuable in that it keeps us excited about our endeavors, it makes things fun, it helps inject LIFE into the proceedings. (And if you're not writing about LIFE in one way or another, what are you writing about?)

So there are my thoughts. I'm happy to go on at nauseating length, if you like. And I'm also more than happy to beta-read, critique, and otherwise throw writing geek talk at you whenever you need/want it.

[sasha-feather.livejournal.com]

OMF, I *love* this comment. *Love*! I was just thinking about how in everything I've written, from creative non-fiction, to scientific papers, to contemporary fiction, to fanfic, the only difference is that fanfic is the most fun, and the least anxiety-inducing, and has the best sense of community around it. All that can be summed up in the word "play".

[tigrin.livejournal.com]

I think this is a good point about roleplaying. Peronally I think roleplaying (especially the sort that reads in a story format going back and forth) can be very valuable as practice for writing. In particular I found roleplaying over AIM to be really challenging, because you didn't really have time to go away and think about it for a while. I think it's important to let yourself be spontaneous and let your imagination go... I can sometimes be too caught up in grammar and semantics and not let myself have fun and be creative.

[troubleinchina.livejournal.com]

For what it's worth, I probably wouldn't read FFVII fic, but mostly because I have no interest in that fandom. *shrug* I occasionally read fic by people I know that isn't in fandoms I read, though.

I don't think writing in LJ has done bad things for my aca-writing. Discussing things with people online and getting into a habit of writing and interacting with people has been good for my writing. This is how I view fanfic.

[alphaviolet.livejournal.com]

I was pointed to this conversation by a link in sasha_feather's journal.

A couple comments:
1. I would encourage you not to say your writing sucks. (Good writing is an art, and good taste is somewhat subjective.) If you want to see your work on a publisher's list at some point - which you mentioned several times - I'd recommend being confident that you have what it takes. (You will get rejections. You need to be ready for that and not get discouraged. It happens to everyone.)

Writing takes practice and lots of patience.

2. I don't know a lot about fanfiction, but one thing I wonder is: given that there is demand for fanfiction, why *aren't* there more paying markets for it? Is it because of a copyright issue?

As a female writer, I see so many women giving their work away and/or not charging for it.

I think it is feminist to want to get paid for one's work. In many situations, that includes having a portfolio of work that one can show people. Having work that you can openly put on your resume - if not now, then later - is something to consider.

If you decide to write fiction, fanfiction could definitely be part of it, but you might be able to expand it into other projects too. As a matter of fact, fanfiction could be a way to learn fiction writing skills and also a way to develop ideas for other projects too.

[alphaviolet.livejournal.com]

P.S. By "giving their work away," I am referring to women writers in *every* genre, not fanfiction specifically. I've met many women writers who are reluctant to ask for money for their work.