laceblade | Battlestar Galactica: "Epiphanies" GEEK-OUT AHEAD!

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Battlestar Galactica: "Epiphanies" GEEK-OUT AHEAD!

It always feels like everybody writes about the same shit when they do this, so hopefully my thoughts on Friday's episode of Battlestar Galactica ("Epiphanies") will be at least slightly fresh?

I was sad about the lack of Apollo in this episode, but since the next episode will be all him, I guess it's okay. I did like the beat between him and Kara - that she hasn't seen much of him lately. Has he just been moping, or is he up to something? Probably moping, but you never know. It was a good way to remind us that Lee is angsty, despite appearances in the CIC.

Watching Billy's face as Roslin was brought on to the Galactica was really sad, :/ Some people postulate that Billy is a Cylon, but I think he's too sweet to be one! The only thing that would lead me to believe that would be the beat in the miniseries when he told Roslin that the little girl was on one of the ships that got left behind/destroyed (can't remember which). I wish they'd have Billy doing some more things. He's very intelligent, and it seems like nobody really cares to notice (except Dualla, who apparently has turned to Lee?!).

I always LOVE the scenes between Bill Adama and Baltar. Adama always looks at him with like, the utmost disgust and Baltar always sounds like a babbling idiot. The scene where the Doctor presents his hypothesis and Baltar says, "Yes, well, he's not an expert. .....And I am." We always know that Baltar is a genius, and it seems to come out in situations like these, where we know his motives are tied to 6's, but he still needs to prevent valid reasons to everyone else to get what he wants. I find it very interesting that at first, he denies anything that could save Roslin, but it seems like once assuming the presidency becomes a reality, he totally freaks out and slaves to find a cure for her. This really enhances the scene with him and the letter, which, by the way, was a brilliant scene.
Adama's line, "Act like you can handle it" was great, XD

I didn't really care for Helo too much in this episode - Boomer's freaking out was really great and raw, but for Helo to just talk to Adama and then accept it....I don't know. He needs more expository angst, as opposed to us just thinking about his inner struggle between duty and love. His line "I guess it's easier to kill when you call it a Cylon" was good, though. Does this mean that to Helo, there is no difference? Has Helo killed any Cylons in battle since returning to the Galactica? Would he?

Oooh, I did forget another favorite Lee moment - when they're all in the CIC and he says to Tigh, "Maybe I don't give a damn what you think." Heehee. I also loved Tigh's expression of horrific glee when Adama's hands were around the Cylon-sympathizer's throat. Tigh is a creepy old man, but the small things make it believable.

This entire Cylon-sympathizer thread strikes me as odd, though. Will any of the main guys on Galactica change their minds? Probably not. I think there needs to be more explanation, though. Seriously, the Cylons obliterated almost the entire human race. It seems like a bit of a reach to just have this massive segment of the population that says, "Hey, you know - they can't be THAT bad!" What the hell. Also, how do they not recognize Gina?!?! After...some episode in season 1, I thought they distributed fliers throughout the fleet with pictures of known Cylons so that they could find them. Tying her hair back and putting on glasses is ridiculous to suggest that no one would recognize her. I was confused for part of the episode, wondering if the sympathizers knew she was a Cylon.
That said, I did appreciate her reaction when Gaius tried to kiss her.
That nuke is hella scary, and even moreso if you listen to this week's podcast with Ron Moore.

A lot of people were really upset about Laura Roslin surviving, but it felt completely natural to me. I bought the storyline. Her having Cylon-blood is definitely interesting. Her flashbacks - great. Gah, what will they do when she remembers Gaius?! And why wouldn't she deal with that before anything else?? She goes and sees the Cylon sympathizer in prison before dealing with the flashback of Gaius/6 sucking face on Caprica? Seriously, wtf. And we know she remembers, because she points at him when she wakes up.
I did not see her affair with Adar coming at all, and that certainly makes things interesting. I thought he was a dick, though - where is the attraction??
Rioting teachers is a great image, ;)

And I guess that's about it....I'm really looking forward to next week's Apollo episode. He and Starbuck are going to get closer - I can feel it! Does anyone know if it's okay for them to be together if they're both CAGs? Is Starbuck a lieutenant again now?

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I didn't really care for Helo too much in this episode - Boomer's freaking out was really great and raw, but for Helo to just talk to Adama and then accept it....I don't know.

What about the scene in the hallway where he's gets in front of Adama and six armed Marines and won't get out of the way? And offered to take Boomer and leave the Fleet? Seemed like he wasn't accepting it.

My impression, for what it's worth (and, granted, this kind of thing is very subjective) is that in the scene where Adama tells him, Helo is more or less in shock. Once he realizes they're actually going to go through with it, he takes action. That scene made me wonder, though, what would've happened if Baltar hadn't shown up. Would Adama have ordered the Marines to shoot Helo? Would he have agreed to put Helo and Sharon on a Raptor and if so, what would've happened to them?

A lot of people were really upset about Laura Roslin surviving, but it felt completely natural to me. I bought the storyline. Her having Cylon-blood is definitely interesting. Her flashbacks - great. Gah, what will they do when she remembers Gaius?! And why wouldn't she deal with that before anything else?? She goes and sees the Cylon sympathizer in prison before dealing with the flashback of Gaius/6 sucking face on Caprica? Seriously, wtf. And we know she remembers, because she points at him when she wakes up.
I did not see her affair with Adar coming at all, and that certainly makes things interesting. I thought he was a dick, though - where is the attraction??
Rioting teachers is a great image, ;)

I'm thinking back to Home Pt 2, and Adama saying to Billy that Roslin thought Billy reminded her of Adar. Adama said Billy shouldn't let it go to his head because Adar was a moron. I'm thinking "moron" was putting it mildly! Also, given Roslin's reactions to Adar in the flashbacks, Billy shouldn't assume she meant it as a compliment.

I didn't really see the attraction either, unless it's that power is an aphrodisiac. Adar acted like a thug.

As for the Baltar and Six memories, I was surprised too by her lack of action once she got stronger. I'm not sure if she's biding her time or if she wrote off her memories of Baltar and Six as hallucinations brought on by fever or whatever.

This is a really random point, but I always misspell 'Adama' as 'Adam' - do you think there's purposeful biblical significance there? It's kind of strange, as the humans on the show pray to the Greek gods.

This is true, about offering to take Boomer and leave the fleet - I'd forgotten about it. Still, though, he does seem more subdued....but as you say, I guess shock is a valid explanation. When I listened to Ron Moore's podcast, though, he kept talking about the scene between Helo and Adama, and said that at first Helo is angry/upset, but then he looks at Adama with respect. And I just think, "No!"

Haven't listened to the podcast myself, but, uh, did anybody tell Tahmoh Penikett that Helo was looking at Adama with respect? Because that's not at *all* what I got from the way he played the scene. But then one of the reasons I quit listening to the podcasts was because I have a lot more respect for RDM when I don't.

As for Helo's initial reaction, I think it takes a while for it to sink in, but he's definitely pissed off by the end of the scene. One thing about Helo is that, while he may not be dumb, he is definitely idealistic to the point of naive. It would take an idealist to give up his seat as he did in the miniseries. And his assumption in Home 1 and 2 is that once he's explained to the Colonials that Sharon is on their side, they'll just accept her, well, that's definitely naive. I think his arc in the second half of this season seems to be shaping up as the realization that the "good guys" do bad things.

But then one of the reasons I quit listening to the podcasts was because I have a lot more respect for RDM when I don't.

Haha! Well, the way he worded it - he said that Helo was really pissed/looking at him with contempt, but then right at the end, there's a subtle change in expression. I haven't seen the episode since hearing that, so I have no clue. Hopefully I'll be able to watch it again when it re-airs on Monday night?

And good point about the shift in character - I wonder if Helo's going to do something crazy? Keeping your baby around just for medical purposes is kind of....not okay, :/

And good point about the shift in character - I wonder if Helo's going to do something crazy? Keeping your baby around just for medical purposes is kind of....not okay, :/

I don't think he'll do something crazy, but I do think he'll have to continue re-examining his beliefs. I kind of see the Helo/Sharon storyline as paralleling the Baltar/Six storyline. There are many similarities, but I don't think they'll ever intersect, because Baltar and Helo are very different from one another and so are Six and Sharon.

I don't think Helo would ever consciously betray the Colonials. After all, he spent two months on Caprica after a nuclear holocaust. He may have lost his faith that his side are the good guys, but I don't think that will cause him to "convert" to the Cylons the way it seems to be influencing Baltar. It's almost like the Baltar/Six relationship is the darker version of the Helo/Sharon relationship, similar to how the Pegasus is the darker version of Galactica.

However, I do think that once (if?) the baby is born, Helo would be highly unlikely to mention it to anyone if he saw her doing something unusual. Unless she's doing something that represents a clear danger to the fleet (like, say, assembling a plutonium bomb with chubby little hands) I think he'll try to cover up anything weird. He must realize by now that any evidence of anything remotely unusual could potentially get her thrown out an airlock. I mean, hello, genetic anamolies (anomalies? I can't spell today), *that's* a good reason to strap a screaming woman to a gurney and forcibly abort her?

Speaking as someone who is politically pro-choice, I found that scene *disgusting*, just as disgusting as the scene of the women in the "farm" near Delphi. Yeah, the Cylons are violating the uteruses of thousands of human prisoners, but then, the Colonials only *have* one Cylon prisoner. I don't see a moral difference between the Cylon actions against human women on Caprica and the Colonial actions against Gina and Sharon in Pegasus, and against Sharon in Epiphanies. They're just committing their war crimes on a far smaller scale.

And now they're keeping her fetus alive for what? To harvest its genetic material? What happens if said harvesting endangers Sharon's pregnancy? What if they keep harvesting after the baby is born and it endangers her health? What if it turns out the baby's blood isn't useful anymore once she's born? Do they get rid of her, use her for experiments? Do they try and get Sharon knocked up again right away so they can keep harvesting from a new fetus? The whole business is morally reprehensible.

The only reason they didn't abort Sharon is because it turned out she was more useful to them pregnant. Mind you, Adama *might* have been wavering in that scene that Baltar interrupted, but who knows? Why they didn't just put her out an airlock or shoot her in the head once they decided to forcibly abort her I don't understand. They couldn't have thought she'd have any intelligence value as a cooperative military asset after they did that to her. Did they want to keep her around as a research subject, a guinea pig?

The episode disturbed me. Mind you, maybe it was supposed to. Maybe what the creators are saying is, "Hey, this kind of immoral behaviour is the logical culmination of dehumanizing your enemy. Take a good look at the road Galactica has gone down." I *hope* it's something like that, I hope at least some character other than Helo (who's biased) and Baltar (who has his own reasons entirely) start treating Sharon like she's a conscious being rather than a defective dishwasher or an incubator. Hell, Gina's psychotic and I still think she should've been treated with some basic human decency. You don't *do* stuff like that. It's not just the effect on their enemies when they behave like that to the Cylons, it's the effect on them. I hope things get less bleak eventually. Because right now I'm pissed off with every human character except Helo. They treat Sharon like a conscious being when it's convenient (when they need information, when they need her to save their asses from a Cylon armada) and like a thing when that's convenient.

I can see Helo keeping quiet about abnormalities of the baby, much like Tyral used to do for Sharon. I wonder what Tyral would think of aborting the baby, or of the baby when it's born? We didn't get to see very much of him in this episode.

I hadn't really thought about the parallels between what almost happened to Sharon and the Farm. I wonder if Starbuck would be upset to learn that they were going to abort Sharon's baby? We know that Starbuck will both obey and disobey tough orders, and that she can be ruthless. But after what happened to her and the scar she has now, I wonder how she would react.

It'd be interesting to have a discussion on the abortion of the Cylon baby - I mean, abortion itself is obviously quite divisive, but when you throw in the question of Cylons, it becomes even more intriguing. I myself am Pro-Life, and was also appalled with the idea that they would abort Sharon's baby. I guess that when it comes down to it, I view the baby as human. Even if the baby was 100% Cylon, I think I still might view it as human, and therefore disgusting that they'd want to kill it. The show keeps blurring the lines between Cylon and human. I believe Gina is a human, and Sharon as well, and her child with Helo. Why do the Cylons want to kill the human race so badly? And could humans ever do the same thing?

It's true that they treat Sharon in the way that is most convenient to them, and it's only because she's a Cylon. And yet, when you think of a number of instances of human cruelty, it happens a lot throughout history. I guess at least in this case, they have a way to say that she's not human? Obviously it's not excusable, but humanity in general can be quite sinful.

Respect, I think its more along the line of disgust, loathing, hate. Respect I don't think so.
As reprob8 said, the question is not how far Helo would have gone to save his daughter I think he would sacrifice his life for them. The question was is Adama willing to kill someone to be able to murder the baby girl?
Bob

What is your take on the stuff happening in the background of Roslin's flashbacks?

Do you mean Gaius/Six? Or do you mean the affair with Adar? (Or is there something else I totally missed??)

I kind of half-mentioned both...as for the affair with Adar, I really don't see what would attract her to him, and I didn't see it coming at all. It definitely adds interest, though. I get the feeling that Bill doesn't like Adar - what would he do if he found out?

And as for Gaius/Six.....let's just say she'd better freaking remember. Gaius is less interesting when not in a position of massive power, but...it really didn't make sense to me that she didn't do something about this right away.

actually, just watched Water tonight (my other half hasn't really had much of a chance to see them in order and as such has caught only bits and pieces) and there is a comment on there by Roslin about Adar (and how he keeps the names of the people killed by Marines in his desk drawer), that doesn't make much sense until you see this weekend's episode - ie: how would a simple schools minister know about what Adar keeps in his desk drawer unless she was failry close to him in some way.

Oooooh, nice catch!

Oh, I was wondering that too! It looks like random people, but why would they emphasize that?

Oops, that wasn't supposed to be anon.

Emphasize what?? What did I not pick up on?? *bites nails*

The background to Roslin's flashbacks. There was the makeout, and there was also some random people talking.

Did i mention that that scene, Caprica, is shot at my university and it is really weird to watch dramatic BSG scenes take place where i eat my PB sandwiches? Its WEIRD! A little WRONG feeling!

I know all about that! I have a very hard time suspending disbelief during any part of "Colonial Day", because the whole thing is shot at the university I went to. I'm trying to watch the scenes and I keep thinking, "Hey, what are Starbuck and Apollo doing in the Rose Garden? Why is the Quorum meeting being held in the Chan Centre and why is Baltar sexing up the reporter in the Chan Centre ladies' room? And why on earth are Helo and Sharon 2.0 running around in front of Koerner Library and pretending it's a spaceport?" It's very distracting.

That is so cool! I wish Battlestar Galactica filmed at UW-Madison. I would totally run out and pose in front of the buildings. Possibly in costume. ;D

Well, I graduated a few years ago, but I practically lived at Koerner Library when I was an undergrad and I've been to quite a few performances at the Chan Centre, so it's impossible not to recognize. I recognize locations reasonably often, but they're not usually places I'm quite so familiar with.

Actually, when I lived on campus, I found the incessant filming to be a hassle. See, UBC and SFU are both practically car-free zones, and both are chronically in need of money, so they're very convenient as filming locations. A production doesn't have to get permission to block off traffic, all they have to do is redirect pedestrians to keep them out of the shot. They can park their big trailers full of equipment and stuff more or less anywhere, and it's all very easy. Also, both campuses have a fair amount of green space, and a large variety of architectural styles and periods in their buildings, so they work out very well for filming. It's a pain in the ass when your shortcut to class is barred, though. So it's kind of like, "Oh, surely they're not shooting *another* movie/TV show/commercial! I'm in a hurry, damnit."

Mind you, I'm not terribly keen on the crumbling of the "fourth wall". I realized fairly recently that I am slightly acquainted with Alessandro Juliani's mother. The next episode of BSG that I watched, every time I saw him, I didn't think, "Hey, it's Lieutenant Gaeta doing his technobabble thing," I thought, "Hey, that's a local actor and I've met his mom. I'll probably see her again next week." It was very distracting.

And I saw Katee Sackhoff jogging the Stanley Park seawall back in October. It quite distracted me from enjoying the beautiful scenery, seeing someone from TV in real life. It was like, "Hey, get back on the TV where you belong!" A friend of mine who has a huge crush on Starbuck was kind of annoyed that I didn't ask her for an autograph, but I would've felt bad about interrupting her. A person should be able to go for a jog without being pestered. But the next ep of BSG I watched, I kept thinking, "You know, she's shorter and thinner in real life," rather than thinking of her just as Starbuck.

Hey, get back on the TV where you belong! ha ha ha ha ha ha! That is EXACTLY how i feel living here!

About SFU's "variety" of archetecture: its bad enough that it drives me nutty at school, its really hard to watch it glamourized on TV. I HATE IT. Arthur Ericson should go back to designing prisons IMHO. Seriously though, you have heard about the SFU suicide rate thing right? I know environmental determinism is frowned upon, but there are some very valid elements to it here...
I seriously get a sick pleasure from watching the destroyed Caprica scenes. Seeing the destruction of SFU's pride and joy is great!

Sorry, school is getting to me lately. Must be nice to be graduated!

Apparently I have met Richard Hatch. I dont remember this because I was about 3 years old at the time.

Hi Raincity, not bothering Katee was a good decision, having done Security and Guest escort at conventions for years there is a time for that and a time "not" for that. I bet if somebody had asked katee heropinion about it she would have appreciated having her own space

Bob

Stargate SG-1 also filmed there, for scenes taking place on the Tollan homeworld. So when it shows up as Caprica, my brain's saying "Hey, where's Narim? Or SG-1? What the hell?"

In the scen with random people talking, one of those people might be Cain's XO.

Huh...hmmm. Hrm, gotta go back and look again....

If you look very carefully (and you may have to freeze frame) there are other people, some in miltary uniform, carry briefcases similar to the one the Cylon sympathizer carried off the Galactica (the one that contained the bomb)

There is one frame where Roslin looks away from the School guy and towards a group of four people. One of them looks like the back of Roslin (this is about 2 minutes to 16 minutes into Epiphanies 213)

It might all be nothing, but it is creating a bit of a stir and speculation - the question being are these the agents who set the explosives on the colonies? It's all very subtle.

Oh, wow, I didn't notice the briefcases at all! I really hope that she puts 2 and 2 together....It seems like a lot of the main characters think that Baltar is crazy, and I don't think it'd be too much of a stretch for them to believe that it was his (guided) hand that caused this mess.

Its really cool. I dont know whether it will have any bearing on forthcoming eps but it can't just be a coincidence. I really liked the touch that every has the same scases, except the school guy, who has a completely different case.
Very interesting indeed.

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Battlestar Galactica: "Epiphanies" GEEK-OUT AHEAD!

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