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A Dance With Dragons: My post is as rambly as the book
I kind of envy those who can whip through these books as if they were a Harry Potter book.
I've been reading this since the evening I got it (on the release date) and just finished it today.
Well, I'm glad I didn't wait years for this book - I just finished Feast for Crows about two weeks before reading this book.
I never posted about FFC, so I guess this post will be about both.
Succinct version: I really think this would have been better as one book. I appreciate some insights, but not all. A lot of Cersei and Tyrion chapters could have been cut, IMO. Jaime's, too. I didn't really need to know how every riverland lord was dealt with.
FFC was a lot about dead fathers, and also children rebelling against their dead fathers (nobody ever really gives a shit about their dead mothers).
Women fail a lot in these books, too. Compared to the first three books, Cersei Lannister's inability to rule in FFC seemed absurd and out of place to me. The men surrounding her consider her a non-player in the game of thrones, despite the fact she's won it. With her father dead, everyone assumes she doesn't know how to rule, and she grows inexplicably paranoid for someone who's spent the entire series making careful, methodical moves.
I wanted Arianne Martell's ploy to put Myrcella "Baratheon" on the throne in Dorne to be successful, but it failed before she could even start.
When women lay plans, they fall flat on their faces. Except for Daenerys, destined to rule Westeros with her pet dragons and her silver hair and purple eyes. (Did I mention I don't really care for her?)
The motif of Tywin Lanniter's rotting corpse kind of hung over the entire tome. I found Jaime's masochistic vigil intriguing. Since spending time with Brienne (who I view as Martin's take on a "realistic" Britomart), he knows what honor is.
In FFC, Sam follows Jon's orders even though his father will judge him for it.
Petyr Baelish, professional creeper, makes a mockery of fatherhood by guiding Sansa toward a throne while also requesting kisses.
Dance With Dragons focused more on bastards and pretenders - Jon, Ramsay Bolton, Tyrion ("every dwarf is a bastard in his father's eyes"), "Aegon," Theon/Reek.
In Dance With Dragons, fathers are more honored, more frequently referred to. The ghost of Ned Stark haunts the passages from Jon's point of view, guiding him as begins to be the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. And let's not forget that to do so, Jon gave up inheriting his father's new name and castle (Winterfell), and the chance to abandon his bastard heritage.
Overall....we really don't get a lot of plot in this book. And while the beginning/the end were good (I really liked the epilogue; liked some things in the beginning like Jon killing Slynt), it wandered all the fuck over the place.
Are people as hard on George RR Martin as they are on J.K. Rowling? Because I find the wandering in Harry Potter a lot more readable/interesting.
I still hate Tyrion Lannister. It creeps me out that he's such a popular character. It's weird watching him in the show, because I love Peter Dinklage's portrayal, and don't mind his scenes at all. It's just listening to his asinine inner monologue that makes me livid.
Davos Seaworth is the only person who can make me care about Stannis.
I was surprised by how sad I was at Kevan Lannister's death. He had his shit together, things were going to be stable, or at least sort of stable.
In theory, I like the "look at the aftermath of Storm of Swords, WTF is everyone going to do now?!" but between these two books, there was just too damn much of it.
Questions for others:
--Do you think Aegon is really Aegon?
--Who is Cersei's Robert Strong? Kevan Lannister "thought he knew."
--Do we think Coldhands = Benjen Stark?
--I feel like the case for Rhaegar/Lyanna = Jon Stark seemed still possible. Martin seemed to be hitting readers over the head with, "HAY! Remember that Rhaegar loved Lyanna?! Are you sure?!"
--I can't remember reading before this book that Mad Aerys had the hots for Joanna Lannister. I'd read the theory somewhere on DW that Tyrion = actually his bastard son by rape of Joanna, which might be the real reason Tywin stopped being the Hand. Then Tyrion gets to be a head of the dragon, along with Jon and Daenerys.
--If Aly Mormont/everyone else is so keen on saving "Ned Stark's girl," then how come Brienne is the only one in Westeros looking for Sansa/Arya? I get they think that Jeyne Poole=Arya, but someone could have been looking during the previous three books, right?
--How is this series going to end, anyway? The Walkers finally cross the Wall and everyone's going to have to pitch in together for one epic fight? Or a more nihilistic ending that everyone's so paranoid about betrayal that the Walkers slaughter their uncoordinated asses?
Fic Recs I'd Take:
--Asha Greyjoy, doing anything
--Daenerys Targeryen ruling Westeros with Ariannne Martell and the Queen of Thorns on her Small Council
--Jaime/Brienne fic (WHAT. I am nothing if not predictable.)
--any flashback fics including Lyanna Stark
--Jeyne Westerling, doing anything
--Meera Reed, doing anything
--Margaery Tyrell, doing anything
--pretty much anything that doesn't include Tyrion Lannister as a viewpoint character
I've been reading this since the evening I got it (on the release date) and just finished it today.
Well, I'm glad I didn't wait years for this book - I just finished Feast for Crows about two weeks before reading this book.
I never posted about FFC, so I guess this post will be about both.
Succinct version: I really think this would have been better as one book. I appreciate some insights, but not all. A lot of Cersei and Tyrion chapters could have been cut, IMO. Jaime's, too. I didn't really need to know how every riverland lord was dealt with.
FFC was a lot about dead fathers, and also children rebelling against their dead fathers (nobody ever really gives a shit about their dead mothers).
Women fail a lot in these books, too. Compared to the first three books, Cersei Lannister's inability to rule in FFC seemed absurd and out of place to me. The men surrounding her consider her a non-player in the game of thrones, despite the fact she's won it. With her father dead, everyone assumes she doesn't know how to rule, and she grows inexplicably paranoid for someone who's spent the entire series making careful, methodical moves.
I wanted Arianne Martell's ploy to put Myrcella "Baratheon" on the throne in Dorne to be successful, but it failed before she could even start.
When women lay plans, they fall flat on their faces. Except for Daenerys, destined to rule Westeros with her pet dragons and her silver hair and purple eyes. (Did I mention I don't really care for her?)
The motif of Tywin Lanniter's rotting corpse kind of hung over the entire tome. I found Jaime's masochistic vigil intriguing. Since spending time with Brienne (who I view as Martin's take on a "realistic" Britomart), he knows what honor is.
In FFC, Sam follows Jon's orders even though his father will judge him for it.
Petyr Baelish, professional creeper, makes a mockery of fatherhood by guiding Sansa toward a throne while also requesting kisses.
Dance With Dragons focused more on bastards and pretenders - Jon, Ramsay Bolton, Tyrion ("every dwarf is a bastard in his father's eyes"), "Aegon," Theon/Reek.
In Dance With Dragons, fathers are more honored, more frequently referred to. The ghost of Ned Stark haunts the passages from Jon's point of view, guiding him as begins to be the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. And let's not forget that to do so, Jon gave up inheriting his father's new name and castle (Winterfell), and the chance to abandon his bastard heritage.
Overall....we really don't get a lot of plot in this book. And while the beginning/the end were good (I really liked the epilogue; liked some things in the beginning like Jon killing Slynt), it wandered all the fuck over the place.
Are people as hard on George RR Martin as they are on J.K. Rowling? Because I find the wandering in Harry Potter a lot more readable/interesting.
I still hate Tyrion Lannister. It creeps me out that he's such a popular character. It's weird watching him in the show, because I love Peter Dinklage's portrayal, and don't mind his scenes at all. It's just listening to his asinine inner monologue that makes me livid.
Davos Seaworth is the only person who can make me care about Stannis.
I was surprised by how sad I was at Kevan Lannister's death. He had his shit together, things were going to be stable, or at least sort of stable.
In theory, I like the "look at the aftermath of Storm of Swords, WTF is everyone going to do now?!" but between these two books, there was just too damn much of it.
Questions for others:
--Do you think Aegon is really Aegon?
--Who is Cersei's Robert Strong? Kevan Lannister "thought he knew."
--Do we think Coldhands = Benjen Stark?
--I feel like the case for Rhaegar/Lyanna = Jon Stark seemed still possible. Martin seemed to be hitting readers over the head with, "HAY! Remember that Rhaegar loved Lyanna?! Are you sure?!"
--I can't remember reading before this book that Mad Aerys had the hots for Joanna Lannister. I'd read the theory somewhere on DW that Tyrion = actually his bastard son by rape of Joanna, which might be the real reason Tywin stopped being the Hand. Then Tyrion gets to be a head of the dragon, along with Jon and Daenerys.
--If Aly Mormont/everyone else is so keen on saving "Ned Stark's girl," then how come Brienne is the only one in Westeros looking for Sansa/Arya? I get they think that Jeyne Poole=Arya, but someone could have been looking during the previous three books, right?
--How is this series going to end, anyway? The Walkers finally cross the Wall and everyone's going to have to pitch in together for one epic fight? Or a more nihilistic ending that everyone's so paranoid about betrayal that the Walkers slaughter their uncoordinated asses?
Fic Recs I'd Take:
--Asha Greyjoy, doing anything
--Daenerys Targeryen ruling Westeros with Ariannne Martell and the Queen of Thorns on her Small Council
--Jaime/Brienne fic (WHAT. I am nothing if not predictable.)
--any flashback fics including Lyanna Stark
--Jeyne Westerling, doing anything
--Meera Reed, doing anything
--Margaery Tyrell, doing anything
--pretty much anything that doesn't include Tyrion Lannister as a viewpoint character
no subject
I do think Aegon really is the young prince. It throws exactly the kind of wrench into the works that GRRM likes to throw, and it also provides a third Targeryen -- which, assuming that Jon Snow is Rhaegar's son (a theory of which I become more convinced with every book), is something we've needed. The dragon has three heads, after all. I hadn't heard this theory about Tyrion actually being Aerys's, but I don't think I like it. Doesn't sit right with me, somehow.
Robert Strong is Gregor Clegane. I don't see how he's anyone else.
I totally agree with you that Coldhands is Benjen Stark.
I think that everyone in the North has written off Sansa because she's married to Tyrion. Even if they do get her back, Winterfell becomes the property of the Lannisters, and none of the people looking for Arya want that.
Ending: who knows. Clearly something to do with the Walkers, and the dragons. A coworker commented that this book feels like GRRM is moving all of his pieces into place, which explains why not much really *happens* -- it's all set up for whatever comes next. I have enough trust in GRRM as a story teller to believe that he's sending us somewhere, but I don't myself have a clear picture of what.
Fic: unfortunately, GRRM is vocally anti-fic, which can make good stuff harder to find. So I don't have any recs, but I too would be interested in a lot of the stuff you mention -- more Lyanna, more Jeyne Westerling, more Meera, more Margaery.
no subject
re: pieces, I totally agree. To me, though, it felt like a kid pushing his hand back and forth on a checkers board instead of...planning shit out, though.
Also, ahh! Good point about Sansa. I keep forgetting that, because Petyr doesn't seem to care.
If I find fic to rec, I will link that shit!